Country Strong

Talk about a guy who’s pretty much seen and done it all. Merle Haggard was a Kennedy Center Honoree (met Oprah), beat lung cancer, got inducted into the California Hall of Fame and chilled with the Obamas—and that’s all in the last year. Has Haggard ever been to the White House? Several times—first time when Johnson was president. Escaped from jail and truancy school? Over a dozen times by his count. Married? Been there done that. Oh, and he made quite a bit of music too.

Thirty-eight No. 1 hits. 49 studio albums. Countless collaborations. Thousands of live shows. And, having just turned 74, the Hag is finishing up his 50^th album, planning a big tour and working on a movie about his colorful adventures. He’s drank and smoked more than all ya’ll combined (His advice to aspiring country musicians? “Don’t put your cocaine in the same pocket with your change.”), and he has somehow managed to hold on to both his marbles and his dignity. Always a busy man (at press time, Haggard was scheduled to perform at the City National Grove of Anaheim on May 11), I managed to catch him as he was about to jump back into the studio to clean up some previously cut material for his new album (“I’m gonna call it Down on a Houseboat,” says Merle).

Tell me where you are at the moment and what you’re up to.

Well, we’re finishing up a two-album contract with Vanguard Records. And we’re currently in bed with Steve Bing on the project of the Merle Haggard movie. That’s probably the two biggest things. We have a summer tour lined up that encumbers about 20-something dates we’re gonna do between May and September. Maybe 30 dates, I’m not really sure. We’ve got quite a bit going.

So tell me about this movie.

Well we’re in the early stages. Steve Bing is the financier. I haven’t talked to him since we shook hands about three weeks ago. He’s in the process of conjuring up the necessary people to tell the story right.

Is this going to be based on one of your books?

I’ve written a new treatment. We won’t call it a script—we’ll call it a treatment. It doesn’t have anything to do with any books. There’re a lot of things in it that I saved for myself that I didn’t tell—there’s been a couple of books written over the years with co-writers. But the movie won’t have anything to do with those books. There may be some things occuring in the movie that occurred in the book but they’re not taken from them.

Where are you doing the album and who are you doing it with?

I’m doing it here in town and I’m doing it with some guys who I’ve been working with for many years. We call them The Strangers when they’re in the studio. We just got through finishing up the album project so we’re in the process of mixing and all that.

Let’s talk a little about your childhood. You were a bit of a hellraiser, weren’t you?

Not really. I just didn’t agree with the truancy laws. They want to force you to go to school and I was a young bloomer. When I was 14 years old I was drinking in bars and I was working in bars. My father died when I was 9 and school was just not on my itinerary. So I got in trouble. They would throw me in different juvenile places for not going to school and I would break out of those places. And in the process of breaking out I would get the law after me. I broke out 17 times.

You broke out of truancy school 17 times??

Well, there were road camps and jails and the Whittier School for Boys, The Preston School of Industry. And there were some really neat things I did when I got out to keep from getting arrested.

Like what?

Well I can’t tell you all that. That’s gonna be in the movie.

You’re kind of a tease today, Merle. Okay, besides the school stuff you did some burglary and committed some actual felonies, didn’t you?

Well, when I was incarcerated in those places as a young man I learned a lot of things that I shouldn’t have learned. It was my idea to steal a check protector and write Standard Oil Company checks and leave the country with a briefcase full of money.

How’d that work out?

It didn’t! (Laughs). I was in jail for something else—skipping school probably—before the execution of those plans, but that came from the association of hardcore convicts in the joint.

Did you actually see Johnny Cash play one of his famous jailhouse shows when you were in San Quentin?

Yeah. He came in 1958. New Year’s Day. A great performance. He didn’t have any voice. He’d blown his voice the day before over in Frisco. But he was in the midst of eight hours of entertainment with everything from jazz players to strippers at an all-male prison and to see him capture the audience without any voice was amazing.

What was it like from the point of view as an inmate to see Johnny Cash play?

Well he was only like a couple years into his contract. I think he started in ’55 and it was 1958 so he was only three years into his career and he wasn’t really that big of an artist at the time. He was a young artist. And you know the majority of the prisoners were not country music fans. Back then it was an isolated cult. And to have him come in and leave a champion . . . it was like having Muhammad Ali or somebody of that stature to come in without any notoriety and leave a hero. He captured the prison.

I read somewhere that you were kind of an entrepreneur in the pokey.

I did a lot of things I shouldn’t have done in there. We made beer and I had a loan company. And a couple of other things. But it really wasn’t all that bad. We made beer out of all the things we had to make beer with there in the kitchen. We sold each quart for eight packs of cigarettes. We couldn’t get a carton—but we could get eight packs. (Laughs)

What happened inside that made you want to make a change in your life? Because when you left San Quentin you went in a different direction.

I’d been in the joint probably about a year and a half and I got denied and wound up in isolation which was next door to death row. And if a guy don’t get shook up over that he’s not feeling much. That was probably the situation. I was locked down next to the people they were putting to death. And I really wasn’t guilty of that much. I’d made some beer and fell in the latrine but here I was in this situation. That turned my mind around. I had had seven days in isolation. I went back out and got myself a job in the roughest place in the joint, which was the textile mill, and did a year of great grades. You know they grade you on a daily basis. I got great grades and the next time I went to my parole hearing I was able to get a date. I got out just short of three years.

So what did you do after you got out of jail?

Went to work with my brother digging ditches and wiring houses. And my career took off immediately after I got out of the joint. I was playing in a little band inside so I was current with my music. I came out and I was digging ditches in the daytime and got a little gig playing four nights a week, so within two months I was working nine days a week you might say.

The past couple years I see you’ve had some fairly big victories outside the music industry. You beat lung cancer.

Yeah, I went through that. I had a singular cancer in my right upper lobe. They were able to take that right upper lobe off and the cancer was encumbered in that, and there was no radiation or chemo needed.

That’s great. You were a smoker for a long time.

Smoking’s always been my problem, but the type of cancer I had—it was something that was usually found in Asian women. So it was unrelated to smoking. I was surprised to hear that.

You were also a Kennedy Center honoree and you went to the White House.

Yeah, we had all that. We also got inducted into the California Hall of Fame this year in Sacramento. It was [with] Barbara Streisand and some other people.

Did you hang out with Oprah at all at the Kennedy Center?

Yeah, I didn’t smoke no grass with her, though. She’s a powerful person. You will not be in the room with her without knowing she’s there. She’s everything you might think she is.

That wasn’t your first visit to the White House was it?

I played for other presidents. Reagan and Nixon and Johnson and Carter. I’ve been there a couple times.

So what did you think of Obama?

I think he was a very cordial, very nice person. He was certainly very nice to us. You know that evening at the White House encumbers about three days of different functions you have to go to to receive that. It’s not just one evening. It’s three different functions. And the Obamas were bending over backwards to make everybody feel good. They were wonderful hosts. I don’t know anything about his politics. I’m not sure what he’s for or against. I don’t think anybody does.

Do you pay attention to politics?

Well, I do. It’s very interesting to me. You know, it’s our country that we’re talking about. I think that everybody that I know is interested. They might not feel they can do anything about it. I’m sure you’re interested.

Absolutely. It’s infuriating sometimes. A lot of times but . . .

There’s a big debate going on as we speak right now with some people that are qualified to debate the subject, but they’re talking about America being in a condition where we can no longer police the world. We don’t have the money to do it. And if what we did before was the right thing, the countries we helped before should be stepping up and doing the right thing.

Yeah, politicians on the right keep saying our country is “broke,” which I’m not really buying. Anyway, let’s talk about a political issue that’s very important to CULTURE readers. Medical marijuana. What are your views?

I think the marijuana problem—or I don’t even want to call it a problem—I think marijuana is just over-noticed. It’s what it is. It’s not anything harmful. It can be used as medicine. It’s good for some people. Some people—it’s bad for them. There’re so many different ways of using it properly and so many ways of overindulge[ing].

You know you talk about medical marijuana—is that under supervision? Do you give somebody a hundred pounds of heroin and say, “Take a little bit now and then”?

Well one thing about marijuana is you can’t overdose on it. Are you involved in any legalization organizations or events?

No. I’ve just been busy with my own life. The wife has an asthmatic problem. She has a license to grow a certain amount of pot in her garden. We also grow onions. I don’t see any difference you know? Where is our freedom? Why are we scrutinized in such manners? It ought to be something a person can choose to do or not. End of subject.

Your friend Willie Nelson always seems to be getting in trouble.

Well, he’s taken it upon himself to be the guy in front of the crowd marching for it. And he wants to rub it in their face. And he’s getting it done. He’s getting a lot of good publicity for marijuana. I mean, look at the guy. He’s gonna be 80 years old and his health is impeccable. I challenge anybody who has never smoked any grass who is the same size to get in the ring with him. Willie will whip their ass.

I guess it true what they say: the leaders get all the arrows. I hope he’ll be okay. I heard he once smoked a joint on the roof of the White House when Jimmy Carter was president.

I don’t doubt that a bit. I think the funny thing—not this issue but one back—when Willie got stopped in Louisiana and the law down there is if you don’t have 60 pounds of marijuana then it’s not a felony. Well they said Willie only had 58. (Laughs). I told that one on stage a couple times.

The music business has really changed a lot—just in the last few years—but it’s hard to imagine the changes you’ve seen over your career. Can you tell people who don’t know about how the country music scene was before guys like you started Outlaw Country?

Well you know the outlaw thing was certain people that decided to record in a different way than Nashville has traditionally been doing it. Music became a different kind during that period.

What was the Nashville sound. Could you describe it?

Not really. You’d have to know the music to tell the difference, but our music out here on the coast is a little more barroom-ish. And I always separate Nashville from the West Coast by [saying] Nashville was a little more “churchy.” A little more gospel was mixed in with the rock ‘n’ roll. Elvis Presley was probably the pinnacle of that. And he was very much into Southern gospel.

But wasn’t Outlaw Country kind of a reaction to the overproduced, safe sound coming out of Nashville at the time?

Well it turned out to be that, yeah. Especially Elvis over the years. When he came into the music scene, he had a three-piece band and everybody was screaming and throwing their babies in the air. And the producers couldn’t wait to get in there and change his fucking style. And those things irritate me as I look over the past. You know Johnny Cash was probably the one able to maintain his original sound longer than anybody else, but you know they tried and they tried and finally Johnny Cash had a piano on stage and I told him to his face, “You need that like you need a fucking hole in your head.” I think it’s just stupid. I dunno.

In your opinion what’s the sweetest guitar sound in the world?

I like John Mayer’s work. He’s probably the guy that’s doing the best with it, but I’m a George Benson fan. I’m a Reggie Young fan. Vince Gill. He’s a great guitar player—one of the great guitar players in the world. And there’re some great ones that we don’t’ know about for one reason or another who haven’t hit the national scene.

Any you want to mention? That would be legendary for somebody to be called out by Merle Haggard.

There’s a kid named Clint Strong who plays down in Texas. A great jazz player. But he just got sentenced to nine months in the joint down there for some crazy thing that didn’t amount to nothing. He’s doing time.

Why don’t you tell me a little about the new album.

It’s called Down on a Houseboat. That’s the theme of the album. I spent eight years living on a houseboat. Living on the water. It’s an interesting life. I think a lot of people dream about living on a houseboat. I did.

It’s kinda cool living on a boat. Tough in the winter, though.

It’s the Mark Twain, Tom Sawyer dream. The imagination comes to life when you’re out there on the water. It’s real healthy. There’s nobody that’s gonna bother you at night and you can move every day so you get a new location. You’re out on the wilderness. I lived on Lake Shasta. It’s got a 169-mile shoreline with 10,000 creeks, three major rivers and several waterfalls.

Is there any music you listen to that would surprise your fans?

I’m a songwriter by nature. I’ve probably done that longer than I’ve done anything else, starting when I was in grammar school. And I purposely don’t listen to other people. I don’t listen to the radio. Once in a while I by accident get over there, but something scares me off before they get through, but I don’t really dig it. Especially current day radio. I don’t want to accidentally grab something that’s somebody else’s. I try to write songs and I don’t want to be stealing things unconsciously.

Are you always trying to improve your sound?

Well, we did this album with the Merle Haggard style intact and on purpose. I believe that we have honed our craft into a situation that’s been mimicked and copied several times, as you know. We are probably the most copied artists in the world right now. For me to change my style and head into another direction would be a dog chasing his tail or something. I think to perfect what we’ve been good at is what we should do.

That’s wise. And speaking of wisdom what advice would you give aspiring country musicians these days?

Well, don’t carry your cocaine in the same pocket with your change.

Smart.

Naw, I’m just shitting you.

It’s a new world now. It has to do with the Internet and downloading and all that, and there really isn’t much of a record business intact. So I have absolutely no words of wisdom for young people. I have a son (Ben Haggard) who’s 18 years old who is playing the hell out of the guitar and a great singer, but where does he sing? Where does he play? Where does he get the experience I got in nightclubs? There’s no place left to play. The mothers of America have shut everything down except the porch light. He’s 18 years old and he can’t even get into a bar until he’s 21 to play!

He’s learning and he’s playing. It’s gonna be interesting to see what he does with what he’s got. It’s gonna have something to do with the Internet. You can virtually do your own radio station. You can do that now.

How has your relationship with your fans changed over the years?

The ones that get it are still the same way. We watch fans that have been coming to the show pass away. I’ve outlived most of my fans (Laughs).

merlehaggard.com.

American Idol

Hey, even The Hag had to get inspired by someone early on, right? So who was the first guitarist who ever made the hairs on Merle’s neck stand up?

“Probably Arthur ‘Guitar Boogie’ Smith,” Haggard says. “When I was a little bitty kid, I remember hearing him play ‘The Guitar Boogie’ on the radio. Ha! It was real simple and real down to earth, but it was real good. He was a radio star and he broadcast from Ohio, I believe. Back when there was only one medium: AM radio.”